There’s no shortage of natural remedies recommended for LPR (silent reflux). The problem is that most of them were developed for classic GERD — heartburn and acid in the oesophagus — not for the very different problem of pepsin reaching the throat. What soothes heartburn doesn’t necessarily address what’s actually driving your LPR symptoms.
I want to be honest in this article. Some natural remedies genuinely help LPR. Some are useful for symptom relief but don’t address the root cause. And some are a waste of money. I’ll tell you which is which, what I personally use, and why.
Key Takeaways:
- The most effective natural treatments for LPR are a low acid diet and alkaline water — both directly address pepsin, the actual cause of LPR symptoms
- Gaviscon Advance (UK version) is technically a medication but works through a natural alginate mechanism and is the closest thing to a “natural” barrier treatment available
- Chamomile and marshmallow root tea provide genuine soothing relief for the throat — worth using alongside the main approach
- Slippery elm and DGL licorice may help GERD symptoms but have limited specific evidence for LPR — useful additions but not central treatments
- Apple cider vinegar, digestive enzymes and betaine HCL are not appropriate for LPR and can make it worse — avoid these despite what you may read elsewhere
- Baking soda in water works as a quick short-term fix but is not suitable for daily use
Why LPR Is Different — and Why It Matters for Natural Remedies
Before getting into the remedies I want to explain why LPR requires a different approach to standard acid reflux. Most natural remedies you’ll find online are designed to neutralise stomach acid or soothe heartburn. For GERD — where acid in the oesophagus is the main problem — these make sense.
LPR is primarily driven by pepsin reaching the throat — not by acid levels in the stomach. Pepsin is the digestive enzyme that travels with gaseous reflux all the way up into the throat and voice box, where it damages tissue and causes most LPR symptoms. It can sit dormant in throat cells for 24 to 48 hours and be reactivated by anything acidic you eat or drink.
This means the most important natural interventions for LPR are those that either deactivate pepsin directly, stop it from being reactivated, or prevent it from reaching the throat in the first place. Remedies that simply neutralise acid in the stomach — without addressing pepsin — will give you limited results for LPR specifically.
You can read more about the pepsin mechanism in my guide to neutralising pepsin in the throat.
Tier 1: What Actually Treats LPR Naturally
1. Low Acid Diet — the most important natural treatment
The low acid diet is the single most effective natural treatment for LPR, and the evidence is clear on this. A 2017 study published in JAMA Otolaryngology (Zalvan et al.) compared a plant-based Mediterranean diet with alkaline water against PPI therapy in 184 LPR patients. The dietary approach produced at least equivalent results to PPIs — 63% of the dietary group achieved meaningful symptom reduction versus 54% in the PPI group.
The diet works on LPR from two angles. First, avoiding acidic foods and drinks stops dormant pepsin in the throat from being reactivated. Second, reducing the overall acid load in the stomach reduces the frequency and severity of the gaseous reflux events that send pepsin upward in the first place.
The threshold I recommend is avoiding anything with a pH below 5 — this is where pepsin reactivation becomes significant. The worst offenders are soft drinks, coffee, alcohol, citrus fruits and juices, tomatoes, vinegar, and carbonated water. For the complete food list see my LPR foods to avoid guide.
For a fully structured diet plan designed specifically for LPR, the Wipeout Diet Plan is the most comprehensive option I offer.
2. Alkaline Water — permanently deactivates pepsin
Alkaline water at pH 8.8 or above permanently and irreversibly deactivates pepsin on contact. This is one of the most directly useful natural interventions for LPR because it targets pepsin specifically — which is what’s actually causing your symptoms.
This is confirmed by Koufman and Johnston’s 2012 study in the Annals of Otology, Rhinology and Laryngology — pH 8.8 water instantly and irreversibly denatured human pepsin in laboratory testing. Regular water at pH 6.7 to 7.4 has no effect on pepsin whatsoever.
Make it your default drink throughout the day rather than an occasional supplement. First thing in the morning and after meals are particularly important times. A naturally alkaline spring water or quality alkaline filter pitcher at pH 9 or above is ideal. For everything you need to know about choosing and using it, see my alkaline water for LPR guide.
3. Alkaline Throat Spray — targets embedded pepsin directly
A simple homemade alkaline throat spray is one of the most underused tools for LPR. Mix half a teaspoon of baking soda into 250ml of alkaline water, put it in a small spray bottle, and spray 2 to 4 times into the back of the throat after meals, before bed and first thing in the morning.
This delivers alkaline contact directly to the upper throat and voice box area — where embedded pepsin may not be fully reached by simply drinking water. Dr Koufman recommends this specifically for people with persistent throat clearing, voice problems and globus. I’ve recommended it to many people through consultations and it works well alongside drinking alkaline water. More detail in my pepsin neutralisation guide.
4. Lifestyle changes — often overlooked but essential
Several lifestyle modifications have solid evidence behind them for reducing reflux and are genuinely natural interventions:
Don’t eat within 3 hours of bed. Lying down with a full stomach increases pressure on the lower oesophageal sphincter and dramatically increases the chance of gaseous reflux reaching the throat during sleep. This is one of the highest-impact changes you can make.
Keep portions moderate. Large meals overfill the stomach, increasing pressure on the valve above it. Smaller, more frequent meals are significantly better for LPR than two or three large ones.
Raise the head of your bed. Elevating by 15 to 20cm using bed risers under the legs — not just extra pillows, which can worsen things by bending the body — reduces nocturnal reflux. Most relevant for people with significant night-time symptoms.
Lose weight if relevant. Excess abdominal weight puts direct pressure on the stomach and lower oesophageal sphincter. For people who are overweight this is one of the most impactful long-term interventions available.
Tier 2: Useful for Symptom Relief
5. Marshmallow Root Tea — best for throat soothing
Marshmallow root (Althaea officinalis) is my top tea recommendation for LPR. Its high polysaccharide content forms a mucin-like protective layer over inflamed mucosa when it comes into contact with the throat and oesophagus lining. A 2025 systematic review published in Nutrients (PMC11944625) confirmed that the bioactive components in marshmallow root — including flavonoids — influence inflammatory pathways by reducing TNF-α and IL-6 levels, with genuine mucoprotective effects.
For LPR specifically, the coating effect on the throat is the main benefit — it doesn’t deactivate pepsin but it protects the irritated throat tissue from further damage while it heals. Steep one tablespoon of dried marshmallow root in hot water for 10 to 15 minutes, let it cool to a comfortable temperature before drinking, and have it 2 to 3 times daily. A cold infusion — soaking the root in room temperature water overnight — preserves more of the mucilage.
Important: don’t take marshmallow root at the same time as other medications — the mucilage can bind to them and reduce their absorption.
6. Chamomile Tea — anti-inflammatory and calming
Chamomile (Matricaria chamomilla) has genuine anti-inflammatory properties and can help settle the stomach and reduce irritation in the throat and oesophagus. The 2025 Nutrients review noted its therapeutic effect is due to anti-inflammatory and soothing properties that help alleviate oesophageal irritation and promote mucosal healing.
Dr Koufman rates chamomile as genuinely useful — specifically recommending it as a late evening option for people with LPR who get hungry before bed and need something safe that won’t trigger reflux. Brew 1 to 2 teaspoons of dried chamomile flowers in hot water for 5 minutes, let it cool before drinking. Avoid if you’re allergic to plants in the daisy family.
One thing to be aware of: don’t drink it too hot. Very hot liquids can irritate an already inflamed throat — let it cool to a comfortably warm temperature first. This applies to all teas.
7. Manuka Honey — soothing in small amounts
Regular honey is on the borderline pH-wise for LPR and I generally recommend avoiding it initially. Manuka honey is more alkaline than regular honey and has additional antibacterial and anti-inflammatory properties — a small amount (half to one teaspoon) stirred into marshmallow root or chamomile tea is a reasonable option once symptoms are stabilising. Don’t use it in the early, active stages of the diet when you’re being strict about pH.
8. Slippery Elm — modest evidence, mainly for GERD
Slippery elm (Ulmus rubra) contains mucilage that forms a protective gel coating over mucosal surfaces. The 2025 Nutrients review confirmed the coating mechanism is real and there is traditional use going back a long time. However, the honest assessment is that the evidence for slippery elm is primarily in GERD and general gastrointestinal irritation rather than specifically LPR. Dr Koufman’s view is that it’s “maybe helpful, but not worth the money” for LPR specifically.
I wouldn’t make it a priority spend. If you already have it or want to try it, mix one tablespoon of the powder in water and take after meals and before bed. Avoid taking it at the same time as medications. It’s safe and unlikely to cause harm — just don’t expect it to be transformative for LPR.
Tier 3: Limited Value for LPR
9. DGL Licorice — more relevant for GERD than LPR
DGL (deglycyrrhizinated licorice) — which has the compound that raises blood pressure removed — stimulates mucus production and can protect the oesophagus lining. There’s decent evidence for it in GERD and functional dyspepsia. A double-blind RCT (Raveendra et al.) showed significant improvement in dyspeptic symptoms with a standardised licorice extract versus placebo over 30 days.
For LPR the picture is less clear. Mucus production in the oesophagus helps with heartburn and oesophageal irritation — but LPR symptoms come from pepsin in the throat and voice box, which DGL doesn’t address directly. Koufman’s assessment is similar to slippery elm — possible benefit, but probably not worth spending significant money on for LPR specifically. If you want to try it, chewable tablets are the best form as they coat the oesophagus on the way down.
10. Baking Soda in Water — short-term fix only
Mixing half a teaspoon of baking soda in 150ml of water creates an alkaline mixture (around pH 8 to 9) that temporarily neutralises acid and can provide quick relief during a flare-up. It works — and it can be used in the throat spray I described above to raise the pH of the alkaline water further.
The problem with using it daily as a drink is the sodium content. Baking soda is very high in salt, and drinking it regularly adds a significant sodium load to your diet. It’s useful as a one-off rescue option when you have nothing else, but not something to rely on daily. For more see my baking soda for heartburn article.
What to Avoid — Natural Remedies That Can Make LPR Worse
Some commonly recommended natural remedies for acid reflux are actively problematic for LPR and should be avoided:
Apple cider vinegar. ACV has a pH of around 2 to 3 — highly acidic. Some people recommend it for GERD based on the theory that low stomach acid causes reflux. This is not relevant to LPR, and drinking something at pH 2 to 3 when you have pepsin sitting dormant in your throat is a recipe for reactivating it aggressively. Avoid entirely.
Digestive enzymes and betaine HCL. These are aimed at people with low stomach acid — the opposite of what most LPR patients have. Dr Koufman is explicit on this point: these supplements are counterproductive for reflux patients and should be avoided.
Peppermint tea. Menthol relaxes the lower oesophageal sphincter — the valve that keeps stomach contents from rising. For LPR this means peppermint can actively make reflux worse by loosening the barrier between the stomach and the oesophagus. Avoid despite its general reputation as a digestive remedy.
Citrus teas and drinks. Lemon tea, orange juice, anything marketed as a “detox” citrus drink — all highly acidic. These will reactivate pepsin and worsen symptoms regardless of any other purported health benefits.
The Complete Natural Treatment Stack for LPR
The most effective natural approach to LPR combines the Tier 1 treatments as your foundation, with the Tier 2 soothing remedies alongside them during the healing phase:
- Foundation: Low acid diet (pH 5+ foods only) + alkaline water (pH 9+) as your main drink + alkaline throat spray after meals and before bed
- Barrier protection: Gaviscon Advance (UK version) after every meal and before bed — this is technically a medication but works through natural alginate and is central to managing LPR
- Symptom relief and throat healing: Marshmallow root tea 2 to 3 times daily + chamomile tea in the evening
- Lifestyle: No eating within 3 hours of bed, moderate portions, head of bed elevated
Stick with this consistently for at least 4 to 6 weeks before evaluating. Most people start to notice genuine improvement within 2 weeks, with significant improvement by 6 to 8 weeks. For a personalised plan based on your specific symptoms, consider a private consultation.
Frequently Asked Questions
What is the best natural remedy for LPR?
The best natural remedy for LPR is a combination of a strict low acid diet and alkaline water at pH 8.8 or above. The diet stops pepsin from being reactivated by dietary acids. The alkaline water permanently deactivates pepsin already in the throat. A 2017 JAMA study found this dietary approach matched PPI therapy for symptom reduction in LPR patients — making it the most evidence-backed natural treatment available.
Can LPR be treated without medication?
Yes — for many people LPR can be significantly improved or resolved through diet and lifestyle alone. The low acid diet, alkaline water and the lifestyle changes described in this article are the foundation of natural LPR management. Gaviscon Advance is helpful and works through a natural alginate mechanism but is technically a medication. If symptoms are severe or persistent, it’s worth getting a proper assessment — consider a private consultation or speaking to a specialist.
Is chamomile tea good for LPR?
Yes — chamomile tea is one of the better herbal options for LPR. It has genuine anti-inflammatory properties, settles the stomach, and is a good evening drink for people who get hungry before bed and need something safe. Let it cool before drinking — very hot liquids can irritate an already inflamed throat. It won’t resolve LPR on its own but it’s a useful addition to the overall approach.
Is marshmallow root good for LPR?
Marshmallow root is the best tea option for throat soothing in LPR. Its mucilage content forms a protective coating over inflamed throat and oesophagus tissue, with confirmed anti-inflammatory effects in a 2025 systematic review. It doesn’t deactivate pepsin but it protects and soothes irritated tissue while it heals — which makes it genuinely useful alongside the main treatment approach.
Is apple cider vinegar good for LPR?
No — apple cider vinegar is not appropriate for LPR and can make it significantly worse. With a pH of around 2 to 3, ACV is highly acidic and will aggressively reactivate dormant pepsin in the throat. Despite its reputation as a natural remedy for acid reflux, it is counterproductive for LPR specifically and should be avoided.
How long does it take for natural LPR remedies to work?
Most people who apply the full combination — low acid diet, alkaline water, Gaviscon Advance, throat spray and the soothing teas — start to notice some improvement within 1 to 2 weeks. Meaningful symptom reduction typically occurs within 4 to 6 weeks. Full healing of the throat tissue can take several months, particularly if the condition has been active for a long time. Consistency matters far more than any individual remedy.
Conclusion
The most effective natural remedies for LPR are those that directly address pepsin — the low acid diet stops reactivation, alkaline water permanently deactivates it, and the alkaline throat spray targets what’s embedded in the throat tissue. Soothing teas like marshmallow root and chamomile are genuinely helpful additions during the healing phase. Slippery elm and DGL licorice are worth trying if you want to, but aren’t the priority spend for LPR specifically. And some commonly recommended natural remedies — apple cider vinegar, digestive enzymes, peppermint — actively make LPR worse and should be avoided entirely.
Related articles:
- The Complete Guide to LPR — Causes, Symptoms and Treatment
- Silent Reflux Treatment — What Actually Works
- LPR Foods to Avoid — The Complete List
- Alkaline Water for LPR — What pH You Need
- How to Neutralise Pepsin in the Throat
- Gaviscon Advance for LPR
- How I Cured My Silent Reflux
References
- Zalvan CH et al. (2017) “A Comparison of Alkaline Water and Mediterranean Diet vs Proton Pump Inhibition for Treatment of Laryngopharyngeal Reflux.” JAMA Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery, 143(10):1023-1029. PMC5710251
- Koufman JA, Johnston N. (2012) “Potential benefits of pH 8.8 alkaline drinking water as an adjunct in the treatment of reflux disease.” Annals of Otology, Rhinology and Laryngology, 121(7):431-434. PubMed PMID 22844861
- Andrawes M et al. (2025) “Natural Products in the Management of Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease: Mechanisms, Efficacy, and Future Directions.” Nutrients, 17(6):1069. PMC11944625
- Raveendra KR et al. (2012) “An Extract of Glycyrrhiza glabra (GutGard) Alleviates Symptoms of Functional Dyspepsia.” Evidence-Based Complementary and Alternative Medicine. PubMed PMID 22666280


I have suffered for about 12 years from what I now know to be LPR and I literally want to copy and paste the link of this article to the doctor I saw (yet again), today who insisted on me taking Omniprozol I’m sick of the battle with them to be honest
Without Google is never have got this far even
this article is so so good
Hey Cat, Yes I understand your frustration I had the same experience with doctors myself. It’s good though now you have your own knowledge, which you can act on yourself. Thank you for the compliment 🙂
Hi , i have a terrible chronic cough and i have a lot study, visit a lot doctor and i take a lot medicine and don’t see result i think i have LPR, one doctor did a video endoscopy in mouth and he find reflux LPR, I dont feel burn in my stomach only cough and more cough and throat clearance, thank you
Yes it sounds like LPR based on what symptoms you have mentioned.
I also have silent reflux and doctor given me 30 lansoprazole for 6 months which I don’t want to take,it is horrible and causes anxiety too,will limit alcohol and carry on with Gaviscon Advance
Also this is common with any menapausal women out there too as stomach acid is low and doctors want to decrease it even more..agitated and confused
Of course it can be different for everyone but I agree it shouldn’t be presumed that high acid is the cause for everyone.
Gavison Advance is NOT available in the USA.
Not easily but sometimes can be purchased online with certain retailers.
Hello Dr. Gray,
I believe I have silent reflux . I have an excessive need to belch with air building up in my chest area and throat sometimes / lump feeling in throat ( can feel acid come up throat occasionally) . However when I blow my nose , for some odd reason it provides relief ( but comes back ) which is why I know it has to have some connection to my sinuses.
Hey Kaiden,
Yes LPR can cause problems with sinuses and even ears. It’s quite common infact.
Hi there.
For 2 months now I have had a pressure in my chest and a very irritated throat that feels really tight and it is sometimes uncomfortable to swallow. My voice is horse and my chest is really tight occasionally. I also have a feeling that something is stuck in my throat. All of these symptoms come and go but have pretty much been hapening for 8 weeks. My doctor has prescribed me omeprozol that I have been taking for 2 weeks and I do feel like that has helped my chest pressure slightly but my throat is very sore and I continue to get the lump in my throat feeling. I dont have a cough at all but I feel that I am swallowing saliva more than usual and i but can lot. I am really worried about how I’m feeling and I’m determined to find a cause. Do you think it is lpr?
Hi Ali,
Definitely sounds like LPR from what you have mentioned yes.
Hello David,
Thank you so much for sharing this information! I just learned that I have LPR after suffering for a year with it, I had no idea that there’s a condition called silent reflux! I just have a question regarding marshmallow root and slippery elm, they both have a blood sugar lowering effect, and I have hypoglycemia, do you know if there are alternatives to these? Or ways to take them without affecting blood sugar levels?
Hi Lotus,
You are most welcome. I wasn’t aware that they can lower blood sugar. As for an alternative it depends what you are looking for, if you want calming relief or to lessen symptoms. Let me know and I’ll give you the relevant answer.
Hi. I have LPR pretty bad. How can I get rid if the fluid in my ear and headache naturally? Thank you
The best thing is to stop the acid and pepsin coming up. I would first suggest eliminating the common triggers of acid reflux. If that doesn’t help enough then following a low acid diet like my wipeout diet plan and drinking alkaline water can make the biggest difference.
I have been taking Omeprozole 40mg twice a day for several years. I recently was diagnosed with a hiatal hernia. Afterwards a month later I started having facial flushing, throat and sinus pressure since. Should I try the diet and the Gaviscon Advance and continue with the PPI’s at the same time?
Hi Crystal,
Yes I would suggest doing that, you can take them as the same time. Ideally I would suggest trying to taper of the PPIs probably after 1 month on the diet and the gaviscon, have a read of this article for more information – getting off PPIs.
Hello, great website!
So about 3 months ago I began coughing up a lot of phlegm only in the mornings, sore throat, shortness of breath, and deep inhale pain lower throat, upper chest. Went to ER and tested for covid, influenza and strep as well as Xray’s, doctor suspected bronchitis , infection, etc. Amount of phlegm decreased and symptoms, then we had a lot of cold wind and weather changes comes and it seemed to come back, went to emergency and they again did x-rays which were clear and suspected post nasal drip/and or reactive airway disease. They ordered a complete CT Scan of Abdomen, chest and throat to rule out, everything negative.
So here I am 3 months later still coughing up a small amount of mucous in the mornings, sore throat, mucous always in my throat, deep inhale pain/discomfort(doctors say is muscle), on and off congested nose and airways, and what seem like breathing attacks now and again where my nose and airways are really congested, . I have tried puffers but they do nothing. and I also get some non productive coughing throughout the day usually when my nose and breathing is congested. Funny thing 1o months ago I made a radical diet change and went to a healthy diet veggies, fruits, fermented foods, lots of supplements, after which I began to be very bloated in right lower quadrant and right lumbar abdominal region, have had colon screen, Ultrasound, x-rays and CT Scan, CBC Blood, urinalysis, however SIBO breath test came back positive, anyways that bloating feel never goes away. The question I have do my symptoms sound consistent with LPR? Do you see a connection with the gut, perhaps a bacterial imbalance. Thanx from Alberta Canada.
Hi Darren,
Thank you. From what you have mentioned it does sound like LPR to me, especially as it happens in the morning. Sounds like you are getting more nighttime reflux. Also look into ways to adjust your diet to help the SIBO that is likely the cause of the LPR I would assume. I think things like too much fibre can make SIBO worse for certain people, really targeting that with a low acid diet would be how I would suggest helping things.
David,
So glad to find your site. I have had acid reflux for years to some extent – just enough to be annoying – no great, terrible episodes. I’ve tried Pepcid, Aciphex, Zantac, Prilosec, and Omeprazole to no avail. But now I have a continuing sore, scratchy throat, and a feeling of swollen gland on the left as well as phlegm in my throat on the left. Had an ultrasound to rule out lumps etc. = negative. Dr. told me he thought it was TMJ. I have sinus issues as well I do not have the typical heartburn, burning sensation in the chest, but sometimes a tingly, stinging sensation that lasts for just a second or two. Suggestions?
Nancy
Hi Nancy,
Definitely sounds like LPR to me. I recommend a low acid diet like my wipeout diet plan. On top of that you can consider to take Gaviscon advance (UK) or reflux gourmet after meals. That would be my first and most important 2 suggestions to start with.
Hi Nancy. How are you doing? I was so interested to read about your similar symptom of feeling like a swollen gland on one side. I too feel like I have a swollen tonsil when I swallow just on one side, but it comes and goes. Some days almost all day other days, maybe just 20 swallows I will feel it. Did this symptom ever go away for you? Love to hear how your doing. Thanks!
I don’t have most of the symptoms that I have read about on your website. My problem is this nasty clearing of my throat a couple of hours after I eat and even If I skip a meal. If I am doing some public speaking and do not want to be clearing my throat every minute because I cannot clearly talk, I will skip eating before my speach and it is much better – just have to clear my throat a few times. I don’t have heartburn. Actually, based on what I have read, it is due to low stomach acid. I take Betain HCL and that helps but no guarantee I won’t have a plug in my throat. Any suggestions?
If you think the Betaine helps then perhaps increasing the dose may be worth a try, upping it until you feel some burning, then the perfect dose for you is one less than that. Generally speaking though my main recommendations are a low acid diet like my wipeout diet plan and taking some med like Gaviscon advance (UK).
Hi. The Slippery Elm lozenges you mention have been discontinued and are no longer available. Oh, I did find a small container for $60 on amazon. Any replacement suggestion? Thanks.
I actually prefer to recommend something natural now, whether that is tea or some kinds of foods. Good food choices that are soothing are things like cucumber. celery, watermelon. What I actually like to do sometimes is make a juice with one or a mixture of these, not only is it refreshing but also really calms the stomach and digestive tract, celery in particular for me at least.
I would just like to point out that a lot of people who have LPR also have low stomach acid (such as myself). I’m surprised you didn’t mention this since drinking alkaline water can cause further damage to those people.
I mean there are a lot of potential causes to silent reflux. Some of which may be helpful for someone could perhaps irritate another person. Though generally speaking these suggestions help the vast majority of people with LPR.
How do you know if you have low or high stomach acid – is there a specific test? I’ve been trying to get on top of LPR for 3 odd years now. I’ve had some success and most symptoms are almost gone but some still persist. I’ve tried a LOT of various things so now just wanting it to GO.
Hi. I was very interested to see another poster mention the feeling of a swollen gland on just one side. I have had minor reflux symptoms in the past but for 2 months had feeling of a swollen gland on one side with a hoarse voice. Ent put me on PPI 4 week trial and soon after that I started with sore throats and thick post nasal mucus. Could I have low stomach acid since PPI added new symptoms? Never have bitter acid taste in throat or mouth.
Main question is the feeling of a swollen gland when I swallow only on ONE side a normal symptom? Thanks
Hi,
It’s possible you could have low stomach acid yes. Is it definitive though – absolutely not. I have heard of the swollen gland on one side, infact I have had it myself. While I am not certain I think it could be correlated or linked to your ears in that case too. I wouldn’t say it’s a common symptom but it does happen for certain people.